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[-] Off the beaten path - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY (34 replies)
2/3/2009 10:36:52 PM (3450 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - STEVE MEINECKE/TN
2/3/2009 11:31:49 PM (4195 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Patrick Scott/IL
2/4/2009 12:01:44 AM (4104 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 12:55:17 AM (4200 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/4/2009 10:42:36 AM (4075 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 10:52:16 AM (4128 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 11:18:23 AM (3986 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/5/2009 4:48:33 PM (4060 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/5/2009 7:43:44 PM (6647 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 10:09:45 AM (3838 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/6/2009 11:53:54 AM (3894 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 12:44:49 PM (3807 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/6/2009 1:51:09 PM (3798 views)
Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/9/2009 1:09:11 PM (4032 views)

Scott,

Your answers are really not supporting your position.

First, the fact that only "new items" would be subject to the tax is just another reason why a national sales tax would not work.  To take a look at an industry already stuggling, the auto industry, your plan would make our current economic situation even worse.  The government is already trying to provide tax credits for purchasing automobiles.  If only new autos are taxes under your plan, who would not opt to buy a used car when the savings would be 30% MORE?  Your plan would drive up the used car prices and still not address the underlying problem we are currently facing - nobody is buying new cars. If people don't buy new items because they are 30% more than used items, the economy would suffer drastically.  And, it would hurt the people with less money who would be paying more for used cars.  This holds true of any goods - not just cars.

Second, you don't seem concerned that burgleries and theft woudl increase dramatically.  The criminals you say would begin paying tax on their toys assumes they would buy these items new... fact is they are criminals and they would steal them - and have even a new source of revenue on the black market.  The increase cost of crime on society would be huge.... higher insurance prices for all of us, and higher prices on all goods to make up for losses caused by theft.

Third, your explanation of the effect on those with Roth IRAs is not really an answer.  The fact is that these people paid the income tax on that money already and they would be paying a 30% tax on that money again when they draw the money out to spend it.  That doesn't seem very fair for something called the "Fair Tax."  Sure, they would pay some taxes anyway... but nothing near the 30% you want to charge them.

Fourth, you seem to think that the rich are stupid and they will continue to spend lavishly in the face of a 30% national sales tax.  Quite arguably, the rich became rich by saving and spending wisely.  If they can buy used porsches, yachts, and jets, they will do so.  And, don't forget that the most coveted items among the rich, antiques and artwork, are all by their very nature "used items" that, according to you, will not be taxed.  The rich will simply change their spending habits to take the best advantage of your plan.  They won't be the cash cow that you imagine them to be.

Fifth, you seem to miss the point regarding the overall effect on the economy.  There is a big difference between the current income tax and your plan.  In a recession, we need consumer spending to create jobs and economic growth.  With your plan, there is an incentive to save, not spend, which is especially true in poor economic times.  How do you spur the economy with a national sales tax?  You need consumer spending, but have tax system that penalizes those who spend.

Sixth, you didn't address the major flaw in the "Fair Tax"... it is NOT fair.  It will cost the middle class MORE in taxes.  The graduated income tax provides a lower rate on the first dollars earned.  It starts at only 10% and gradually rises to about 36%.  With a national sales tax, those who make between $30,000 and $200,000 will be paying 30% on every dollar they spend, since most in that category spend all of their income, they will be paying the maximum amount from the beginning and they lose out of the beneftis of the lower rates provided by the graduated income tax.

Those who can save - will save.  Those who can't save will shoulder the majority of the tax burden in this country.  The rich will get richer, the middle class will get poorer, and the poor won't pay taxes in either tax system.

You seem to have bought into the hype that a consumption tax is a "fair" tax... just because someone decided to call it the "Fair Tax" doesn't change the nature of it.  It is not inherently any more fair than the graduated income tax - it is a consumption tax that hits hardest those who consume the most as a percentage of their income.  Since those with lower incomes spend the largest percent of their incomes, they will be the real losers under your plan.

And you are really wrong when it comes to which provides the more stabile base - that is certainly not a consumption tax.  In lean times, it is easy to cut back on spending - or at least to cut back on spending on "new items," which you claim will be the only category of goods to be taxed.  Thus, the nation would suffer from decreased revenue when it needs it the most.

We could argue this forever... but the simple fact is that the majority of economists and politicians do not consider the consumption tax to be a viable alternative.  It will not happen. As I have said, if we were to try, we would end up trying to phase in a consumption tax and the income tax would never go away - we would have both.

Best,
Robert A. Franco
SOURCE OF TITLE

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Re: Still makes no sense.... - Scott Perry/PA
2/10/2009 3:26:30 AM (3799 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/10/2009 9:59:16 AM (3840 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Debbie Thibodeaux/LA
2/11/2009 1:07:54 PM (3777 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/11/2009 1:43:23 PM (3766 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/11/2009 4:48:23 PM (3772 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Robert Franco/OH
2/12/2009 12:46:38 AM (3663 views)
Re: Still makes no sense.... - Douglas Gallant/OH
2/11/2009 5:06:23 PM (3760 views)
As I Was Saying... - Scott Perry/PA
2/16/2009 12:14:21 AM (3766 views)
Re: As I Was Saying... - Robert Franco/OH
2/16/2009 11:56:29 AM (3855 views)
Re: Commercial Activity Tax... - Robert Franco/OH
2/16/2009 3:04:27 PM (6448 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/6/2009 4:45:51 PM (3900 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/6/2009 6:17:30 AM (3855 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/6/2009 10:03:24 AM (3854 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 10:47:54 AM (3996 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Robert Franco/OH
2/4/2009 11:06:18 AM (3799 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:10:33 AM (3762 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Scott Perry/PA
2/4/2009 11:31:26 AM (3857 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:59:28 AM (3864 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Barbara Bennett/IN
2/4/2009 3:28:50 PM (3672 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Kevin Ahern/CT
2/4/2009 11:21:39 AM (3772 views)
Re: Off the beaten path - Clanci Nelson/OH
2/5/2009 4:25:01 PM (3991 views)

[+] reporting non-paying title companies to the underwriters - Michael Lanin/KY (7 replies)
2/3/2009 1:20:18 PM (3344 views)

Title Assurance & Indemnity Corp. of NA Cleveland, OH - MIchael Lanin/KY
2/3/2009 1:01:36 PM (2577 views)

[+] The Law Firm of Crystal Lowery - Edward Huguenin/SC (4 replies)
2/1/2009 8:20:52 AM (3715 views)

[+] What is considered slow pay? - no name/MI (2 replies)
1/30/2009 12:50:38 PM (3314 views)




[+] Probate Question - Helene /GA (7 replies)
1/29/2009 11:50:27 PM (3187 views)

[+] Preview of Coming Attractions? - Scott Perry/PA (11 replies)
1/29/2009 10:53:59 PM (4948 views)

[+] The Bankruptcy Club - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY (8 replies)
1/29/2009 2:56:14 PM (3547 views)

[+] MONEY OWED - quinn cioffi/PA (2 replies)
1/28/2009 2:38:15 PM (3565 views)

New Real Estate Numbers Are Out - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY
1/28/2009 2:25:36 PM (4371 views)

[+] Snow Day! - Robert Franco/OH (13 replies)
1/28/2009 12:39:37 PM (3165 views)

[+] NALTEA - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY (2 replies)
1/28/2009 12:13:09 PM (3014 views)

Buckeye Land Abstract - Sybil East/GA
1/27/2009 12:54:18 PM (3379 views)

Another NON-Payer - Kurt deVries/FL
1/27/2009 12:19:30 PM (3005 views)

[+] Title Insurance - AbstractorWatchdog com/NY (3 replies)
1/27/2009 10:54:55 AM (3275 views)


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