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Blurbs from the Bossman

Searching Mineral Interests--Don't Try This At Home
by Scott Perry | 2008/05/01 |

As the price of oil continues to rise, the demand for alternative energy sources like coal and natural gas is at an all-time high.  This presents a unique opportunity for abstractors affected by the downturn in the housing market to supplement their income.  According to some local experts, however, the work isn't necessarily being done by experienced searchers.

Blurbs from the Bossman ::

I just sent in my annual premium for the mine subsidence insurance policy I purchased when I built my home.  For the uninitiated, Mine Subsidence Insurance is a program administered by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and provides a homeowner with protection in the event of damage to a home from subsidence due to underground mining operations, something which isn't normally covered by traditional homeowner's insurance.  It's a good investment if you're a homeowner in this part of the country because of southwestern Pennsylvania's long history as a coal-producing region.  While it's not something that I think about much, I sure do sleep better at night knowing that it's there should I ever need it.

Most traditional title policies don't include coverage of mineral interests, either, although some owner's policies may include an endorsement which covers damage to existing improvements in the event of damage by someone exercising their right of surface entry to extract minerals or water.  "We always advise buyers who are interested in mineral interests to order a special mineral rights search," says Diane Cipa, General Manager of The Closing Specialists®, a title agency located in Ligonier, PA.   She also recommends that consumers interested in mineral rights consult an experienced attorney who specializes in mineral rights law.

Real estate law in the Keystone State is peculiar to that of most others in that it recognizes three separate and distinct interests in land, 1) the surface interest, 2) the mineral interest, and 3) the support interest.  Mineral interests can be separated, or "severed" by one of two methods, either by a separate deed of conveyance or by specific exception or reservation contained in a conveyance of the surface interest.  If the surface owner holds title to the support interest, then the mineral owner must leave enough of the substrata, i.e., coal, etc. to support the surface interest.  However, if the mineral owner also holds the support interest, the surface owner may or may not have any legal right to have his buildings supported by anything.

With oil trading at $100 per barrel and up, demand for coal is at its highest level in 25 years.  There's also been a lot of interest in coal bed methane, a gas contained in coal formations.  However, the newest "gold rush" is the natural gas contained in the Marcellus Shale, a rock formation covering a 54,000 square mile area covering most of the Appalachian Basin and stretching from southern West Virginia through parts of Pennsylvania and Ohio into upstate New York.  Estimates are that as much as 50 trillion square feet of the stuff could be contained in the shale, which lies more than a mile underground.  One of the major players, Range Resources of Fort Worth, Texas already has plans to drill at least 4,700 such wells in southwestern Pennsylvania at a cost of $3 million each, not counting leasing costs.

That got me to thinking about all those new faces I've been seeing in some of the county offices lately. I've been talking with several of the "old hands" who specialize in mineral searches in these parts, whom I won't name in the interest of confidentiality.  They tell me that one of their biggest concerns is that some energy companies exploring the region are putting inexperienced people in the courthouses.  "It's booming right now," says one fellow with over 25 years of experience, "but I know that after it's over, I'm going to have at least another three to four years worth of work just cleaning up all the legal issues left by these guys."  He also tells me that some of the searchers, who have only a few months on the job themselves, are already training new hires.  Another guy I spoke with says that he sees a continuing need for experienced mineral searchers.  "I just don't see how you could do this job from a computer terminal," he says, commenting on the fact that the Recorder of Deeds in his county recently went online with images of deeds and mortgages, "you need to to go back 150 years in some cases to pull some of those old condemnations."

Even with years of residential abstracting experience, I never attempted to undertake such searches without proper training.  It is an extremely complex area of real estate law which requires a specialized set of skills combined with years of experience and is definitely not something that we should be trusting to rank amateurs.




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1169 words | 10029 views | 9 comments | log in or register to post a comment


According to the ABA...

Interesting post, Scott.  I read several months ago in an American Bar Association publication that mineral rights was a very lucrative field for young attorneys.  I believe it indicated that there was a lot of experienced oil and gas searchers retiring and not enough of the younger generation to replace them.  I remember thinking that there are probably very few searchers who are attorneys.  Regardless, I think this is a field that will be growing as energy prices rise and probably something that more experienced abstractors may want to consider. I think it would be wise to find an experienced landman to train under first.  There is a lot more to it than finding deeds and mortgages.

 
by Robert Franco | 2008/05/01 | log in or register to post a reply

lawyers...lol

The very few searchers who are attorneys probably bear a high error rate in their work if they are anything like the lawyers out here on the Left Coast.  I frequently see attorneys arrive at the county records office with no clue about how to conduct a thorough search of basic title.  The far more esoteric topic of mineral rights would certainly be lost on virtually all of them.  They often become our clients as we show them the eccentricities of the public records systems.  Perhaps the Pennsylvania State attorneys are more competent to do research, but somehow I doubt it.  Heck, half the time they send even less-experienced interns to do the work who wander in with blank stares or fear in their eyes.  Lawyers as researchers...good for a laugh.

 
by William Pattison | 2008/05/05 | log in or register to post a reply

Thanks for your comments, guys...

Rob: You're right, there are very few attorneys who do their own searches, at least in my neck of the woods.  They tend very knowledgeable and generally don't trust their work to third parties.

Bill: Most lawyers around here who use abstractors do so because they want to be able to pass on the liability.  The few who do their own searches are the ones who worked their way up through the ranks. 

 

 
by Scott Perry | 2008/05/07 | log in or register to post a reply

Searching mineral interests, continued

While spousal unit, IT geek, and bookkeeper keep the home fires burning (and heads just BARELY above water for the abstracting company I own), I have entered the world of oil/gas -- in Pennsylvania no less.

You are absolutely right about the lack of experience going on in the courthouses of this state right now.  The mind boggles.....  The actions and antics of one (very young) man comes to mind.  AFTER THREE WEEKS on the job, he STILL didn't understand the difference between "grantee" and "grantor."  It didn't matter how many times people told him.  I could have taught my CATS more about abstracting than he has learned in 3 months on the job.

That being said, I am a firm believer that any experienced abstractor can become a proficient oil/gas title person WITH SOMEONE TO MENTOR YOU FOR A FEW WEEKS.  Abstracting is abstracting: the ability to think logically and creatively at the same time, the ability to find ways around chain roadblocks, etc.  Adding the idiosyncracies of mineral/oil/gas is relatively easy with the right people in charge of your crew.

But without that support, you will be lost and in very big trouble.  Every state does things differently with regard to minerals/oil/gas.  In PA, oil/gas is NOT wrapped up in the mineral chain...  minerals and oil/gas can be severed separately.  I have had to point this out to many an oil/gas abstractor from a new company coming in to a region when they are sweating over the mineral chain...when they didn't need to.

The bottom line to my missive is that if you are starving in the mortgage end of the abstracting business and can travel and be away from home for weeks at a time, look into going into the oil/gas business right now.  Dozens of companies are absolutely frantic for experienced people.  I don't like being away from home (I've been living in a hotel for 6 months), but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.  Feel free to contact me directly if you want more info about what it's like being a Landman.  (I do so miss the mortgage end of the business....)

oily@ArgentTitleResearch.com

 

Alix

 
by Alix Ott | 2008/05/15 | log in or register to post a reply

Thanks for checking in, Alix!

One thing that further complicates matters is the fact that coal bed methane is considered a mineral interest rather than a gas interest.  I read somewhere that Pennsylvania courts have ruled that the owner of the coal also owns the rights to the methane. That's why so many companies are showing up at the tax sales to buy up the abandoned coal interests around here.

 

 
by Scott Perry | 2008/05/15 | log in or register to post a reply

Coal bed Methane Ownership

Actually the ownership of coalbed methane has been argued in the various state courts and in Appalachia it depends which state you are in as to who the owner is.  When coalbed methane originally was developed for commercial use in Virginia by Occidental Petroleum / Island Creek Coal there was no clear ruling by the courts so the developing entity created a lease agreement whereby the surface, coal, and gas owner equally shared the royalty after production.

 
by GARY IMES | 2009/05/04 | log in or register to post a reply

Mineral Title

I have been reading a few of the posts by "abstractors" who apparently have their experience from preparing mortgage title searches.  It appears that a few of you believe that switching from mortgage titles to mineral title abstracts is a very simple matter.  My background relates to 32 years as a coal, oil, and gas landman.  I have abstracted mineral title in approximately 27 states, held a real estate broker liicense and appraiser certification.  I have personally hired and trained individuals to conduct mineral titles and found that the majority of the "mortgage title" abstractors find it difficult to make the change into mineral title.  One posts stated his experience with an individual that didn't know his grantor from his grantee.  Believe that individual will not last in this type of work.  Without listing all the differences and complications involved just consider the liability.  If you make a mistake on an oil and gas mineral abstract you may not be liable for the price of a residential property but of a ten million dollar gas or oil well.  Nevertheless, if you are very sharp, detail oriented, and willing to travel this  area of work is rather profitable. 

 
by GARY IMES | 2009/05/04 | log in or register to post a reply

I agree

Gary:

I could only agree with your comments.  Yes, mortgage abstractors do find it hard to perform mineral abstracts.  I have been on both sides of the field and these types of abstracts are long, difficult, time consuming and tedious.  Furthermore, what is needed for a mineral search is not what is needed for a mortgage title, and vise-a-versa.  I do agree that this line of work is profitable, but I started doing mortgage work recently because of the pullout of several oil and gas companies from my area due to the poor economy.  Yes, it is profitable, but it is also good to versatile in both areas when the economy takes a downturn.

 
by Susan Kirkland | 2009/07/20 | log in or register to post a reply

Oil and Gas Reserarch

Hi Scott, within the last year, I opened up my own abstracting business here in PA, after working for a very knowledgeable oil and gas attorney in my county for 14 1/2 years.  I have been working as the crew leader in my county for the last 6 - 8 months, and have seen quite a few things that make me wonder how much I may be cleaning up from other companies later on also.  I do have to absolutely agree with you and another poster that there is a lot of people who are not qualified will never be qualified or can not get it no matter what you try and show them. 

It isn't easy training someone how to run title without working one on one with them, and that is what I do.  They become my shadow and I try and explain everything as I go.    And you are also right on how things should be and how they are done in different states.

Christine

 
by Christine Sheeler | 2008/05/17 | log in or register to post a reply
Blurbs from the Bossman

 

Thoughts, Observations
and Ruminations of an Independent Title Examiner Living & Working in the "Steel Buckle of the Rust Belt."

 

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